Automatic Gearbox Fault

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi, Driving from Weymouth to Dotrchester yesterday there appeared to be a "clunk" from the rear underneath of the car. The gearbox refused to change from 6th and the gearstick seemed disconnected to any activity within the box - no effect at all.  Can anyone advise me of the cause please? I had a ATF and sump kit done on the box three years ago and 20k miles back. The car currently has 97k and is a 2003 3.0 litre V6 petrol. When i swithc off and restart all is well for about a minute - then the car remains in the gear that it achieved - even when pulling away, in 4th, 5th or 6th not good !! I would be very grateful for the expertise of members on this one, thank you. 

[LairdScooby]

Do you know what fluid was used in the box? I have a couple of ideas but some more info is needed before i have any firm ideas of where to start looking.

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi Dave, Thank you for hyour response. it seems now that the problem is an electrical sensor. Diagnostics show that the "DSC not Available" followed by the "ABS Fault" warning light is then sequentially followed by "Gearbox Fault". 

The diagnostic shows that the problem in this case is a broken ABS sensor on the rear o/side wheel. I am having it replaced tomorrow and am assured all will be well..........................

I will keep you posted and thanks again for your prepardness to investigate this further with me. Kind Regards

Dominic

 

  

[LairdScooby]

Hopefully the ABS sensor will fix the gearbox too and you don't have two separate faults there! Keep us posted Dominic!

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi Dave, 

The sensor (rear o/s ABS has been replaced. All warning lights are out and gearbox functioning smoothly. Just a thought it had been my habit of using the box almost like a manual certainly down shifting for junctions, hills etc. Is this okay - or contributory to the gearbox problem?

 

I always understood it was "good practice" to actually use the box rather than just in "Drive" - any thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

Dominic

[LairdScooby]

Glad to hear it's all sorted now Dominic, it's surprising how sensors interact with each other on many cars.

There are many schools of thought on auto box use, one is put it in D and forget it no matter the length and terrain of your journey (assuming it's all forward of course).

The other is to use the manual override for hills (both ascending and descending) and also for restricted speed areas. Rough rule of thumb is  at 2000rpm (the beginning of the power/torque band), 3rd gear gives 30mph and 4th gives 40mph so besides helping avoid a speeding fine, it should (in theory) improve fuel economy. I'm currently testing that theory but thanks to some recent town driving don't have any conclusive results.

Using the auto box purely as a manual seems a bit unnecessary IMHO, fine to use it on hills ( as above) etc or for slightly more control through a series of twisty S bends if you're driving "enthusiastically".

Either way, it shouldn't cause any problems using the box as a manual, it will in fact help to keep the various hydraulic valves moving easily, especially if combined with ATF changes every 24k miles to keep it fresh. Early S-Types upto 2002 used Mercon V (roughly equivalent to Dexron III in viscosity but i'd be reluctant to use Dexron) and later cars used Dexron 6 (ZF 6 speed) which is much thinner and causes problems in the older (Ford) 5 speed auto. Mine is an early car and when i change the fluid i will be using Carlube ATF-U or NAPA MVA as both meet/exceed Mercon V specs.

Another reason for me using ATF-U is my other car also uses the same so saves me having two different ATFs lurking in the shed! 😛

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi Dave,

 

Many thanks for your thoughts on the auto operation. An interesting one - particularly as autoboxes through evolution, design, sensors and other "refinements" enable a particularly economic outcome. On a regular journey of A303, b roads and towns, over 60 miles I achieve between 29 and 31 mpg.

On a run from Dorset to York, with stops etc - mainly main / motorways an amazing 36 mpg !! Given the car is 3.0 V6 petrol, i was delighted. My semi auto driving style is more auto than manual - fear not ! My original thoughts were that as you say it keeps all working parts, working.

Thank you again, I shall keep in touch if the dreaded " light display" - together with the notices.

Happy motoring with your "S" over the winter.

Kind regards

Dominic 

   

[LairdScooby]

53 minutes ago, Lord Sladacre said:

On a regular journey of A303, b roads and towns, over 60 miles I achieve between 29 and 31 mpg.

On a run from Dorset to York, with stops etc - mainly main / motorways an amazing 36 mpg !! Given the car is 3.0 V6 petrol,

You're welcome Dominic, i've achieved similar figures from mine on longer runs, for example a trip last year to the Kinson area of Bournemouth for a friend to collect a car he bought on eBay returned 31mpg. I should add mine is on LPG so the general multiplier to get the "correct" petrol consumption is 1.3 so arguably i would have returned ~40mpg on petrol.

Knowing the roads you mention and roughly what i get around here on similar roads (but without the hills) i generally get 27mpg which works out ~35mpg when "corrected". Where possible, on unrestricted roads, i try to keep my speed at an indicated 78-80mph which is (by GPS) a real 73-75mph as i've found this gives the best economy on a longer run, ~2500rpm so the engine is just into the power band properly.

Talking of winter motoring, i had a nasty scare last year when i encountered some ice and nearly got intimate with a telegraph pole. Since fitted a new set of tyres as the ones on there were all 10+ years old and had obviously gone hard, despite having good tread. At the time my other car was a Volvo 760 GLE on near new cheap tyres and that had gone round the same junction without even a twitch hence pointing to the tyres being the cause of the problem. If your tyres aren't reasonably new, it would be worth double checking them before winter in the light of this. 😉 😄

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi Dave,

 

Good to hear from you - So many topics that are of common interest and experiences to share.

I was fascinated to hear that you run yours on LPG. !! Keen to hear more, eg availabitity, performane ,issues, modifications etc - obviously it suits you and the primary reason must be oerating costs. Interesting, but would it suit a daily driver, albeit of no more than 5 - 6k miles per year?

tyres. I bought the car with Avons all round, which were showing signs of age. I replaced them in November 2019 @ 77k miles  (4 yrs already !!) after careful reasearch for Falken Ziex ZE-914 Ecorun (£440 for 4 - through Black Circles online).

I have found the tyre to be excellent, i have covered 20k miles in that period, no tread wear or wall damage at all. I chose them (in addition to rain, mpg, noise rating - all good) also for the slightly raised profile to wheel rim, ensuring minimum opportunity for damage to the alloys. I think 6 yrs is tyre life max - as you say regardless pretty much of wear.

Insurance. Do you have an "agreed value" insurance, perhaps through Jaguar Enthusiasts Club, Peter James Classic Insurance. I had been struggling and no one was interested. However, the primary reason I joined JEC was the Insurance deal and have insured mine for a value of £5k, a comprehensive policy including uk/continental breakdown for £210.00.

In the day with three children growing up we had a 1987 Volvo 740 GLE estate auto. We covered Holland, UK and Spain. Fantastic car, 180k miles - needed to refurbish the gearbox, in those days (1992) for £1100.

if you have a handy pic of the S- Type would be interested to see her. i have attached a pic - ignore the low concave on fnt pax dr - all gone now.

Have a good w/e.

Dominic 

  

[LairdScooby]

7 hours ago, Lord Sladacre said:

I was fascinated to hear that you run yours on LPG. !! Keen to hear more, eg availabitity, performane ,issues, modifications etc - obviously it suits you and the primary reason must be oerating costs. Interesting, but would it suit a daily driver, albeit of no more than 5 - 6k miles per year?

It will suit any car as long as the engine gets to a certain temperature during each journey. The performance is the same (possibly better as LPG is ~105RON) and as mentioned above, the economy is a smidge down but at ~£1/L for my nearest place that doesn't really matter. If i'm near a Morrisons i try to fill up there as they are about 80p/L but the seem to be phasing it out. There's a station in Dorch at 99.9p/L as of yesterday and one in Wallisdown, Bournemouth and another in Swanage, both at similar prices. Not sure exactly where you are but you mentioned going from weymouth to Dorch before so you should be able to fill up somewhere.

https://www.filllpg.co.uk/index.php?page=lpg.php

If you type Dorset into the "Search for area" box it'll show you where and how much and if you click on the price/location flags, it gives you detailed info of exact price, when updated and so on.

Modifications - needs an add-on LPG ECU, tank and injectors and asociated parts. Mine is running a BRC system, good when it works but i had a bad experience with a BRC system on a Jeep Cherokee several years back so not my favourite brand. That said, it works well, changeover is seamless and it can be switched back to petrol if needed or switches back automatically if the LPG runs out. I only do ~5k miles a year as well but would still recommend it - installation costs might take a while to recoup though. Bought the car with it already on there which was useful. Owned a few LPG vehicles in the past and converted 1 myself, definitely better for the evironment, your pocket and also your engine - it burns cleaner so less Oil contamination.

8 hours ago, Lord Sladacre said:

Tyres. I bought the car with Avons all round, which were showing signs of age. I replaced them in November 2019 @ 77k miles  (4 yrs already !!) after careful reasearch for Falken Ziex ZE-914 Ecorun

An excellent choice - i was going to fit those to mine but the price earlier this year was nearly £150/tyre! Settled on Maxxis Primetra which so far have performed as well as the Falken Ziex ZE-914s i had on my Rover but at ~£350 for 4 was a considerable saving on the Falkens but similar reviews. Whether they still perform as well in a years time remains to be seen, if not then it'll be a set of Falkens bought piecemeal and then fitted as a set.

8 hours ago, Lord Sladacre said:

Insurance. Do you have an "agreed value" insurance, perhaps through Jaguar Enthusiasts Club, Peter James Classic Insurance. I had been struggling and no one was interested. However, the primary reason I joined JEC was the Insurance deal and have insured mine for a value of £5k, a comprehensive policy including uk/continental breakdown for £210.00.

My insurance isn't agreed value (but is classic) and cost a bit more than yours, not much but given our different areas, i've experienced a similar difference in the past. Peter James were quoting a lot more than what i'm paying for some odd reason.

8 hours ago, Lord Sladacre said:

In the day with three children growing up we had a 1987 Volvo 740 GLE estate auto. We covered Holland, UK and Spain. Fantastic car, 180k miles - needed to refurbish the gearbox, in those days (1992) for £1100.

Surprised you needed a rebuilt gearbox, both the ZF and AW boxes (mostly ZF on the 740 GLE) were sturdy boxes, same as fitted to the 1986 on Jag models including the XJ40 models. I suspect it probably just needed an ATF change and paybe a new filter and sump gasket and the garage was trying to make some money. I had three 740GLE auto estates before the 760 GLE auto estate, all good cars but i needed something easier to get into and preferably newer with fewer things likely to wear out through age. Had a litany of problems with the CR-V largely due to neglected servicing. Latest problems (after renewing the front caliper guide pins) is the brake fluid is waterlogged so that's the next job for the Honda.

There you go, taken while fitting new plates and because of the slight curve on the front plinth, i had to leave it like that for a few days facing the sun for the new plate to stick properly on the plinth - it had fallen off because i didn't do that and i still have a long cable tie on each end with a cut piece of chopstick at the top to help the top corners curve as they should. Must take those off soon!

A couple of other relatively recent mods include the clear side repeaters and Adamesh stainless back boxes plus some logo puddle lamps that display the Jaguar name and leaper on the tarmac with the door open at night.

No pic of the logo lights as yet though!

Enjoy your weekend!

 

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi Dave,

 

A very thorough and useful reply to the points Imentioned, many thanks !!

LPG food for thought - although unlikely, given the time to recoup costs, food for thought. I encountered similar problems with the front plate and eventually used screw and caps at the top of each corner. 

The Adamesh back boxes certainly look the part. The logo puddle lamps display - is amazingly cool. Tempted to emulate as the car has its own Jag pad !!

Thanks for the photos - great cars.

Hope to get out and about next week to test out the gearbox situation. Frustratingly been suffering following the infamous double jab (covid / flu)  - i simply must be better soon !

Have a good w/e, thanks for all the info., I appreciate it.

KInd regards

Dominic

[LairdScooby]

No problem Dominic, if you are assured of a good local supply of LPG for the foreseeable future i'd definitely recommend it.

Hope you get over your reaction to your double-jab soon, i politely declined mine this year!

[Lord Sladacre]

Thanks again Dave, I wise man indeed. I shall certainly take the same course of action next year ! i followed, as a lamb to slaughter - I should have relied upon my healthy diet, exercise and a busy summer / winter outdoor life. We have a boat at Ridge wharf and cruise her twice a week 12 months - caught me in a weak moment so jabs it was. 

I put my Jaguar faith in you. For the mot last month the garage said that the n/s headlamp cluster was u/s and beyond cleaning in order to pass. 

I found it challenging to ascertain if all S- Type headlamps fit all years of cars. No one really wanted to confirm - even Jaguar / SNG who work of course on part / car vin  numbers and were only prepared to to quote "limited year parts! eg: in my case 2003 - 2005. They did however manage a precise quote of £1400 for one cluster !!  JagRar (Taunton) - confirmed all clusters fit all S types - except the R S-Type, which has different connections / lens shape. They will be my go to in future. Who do you prefer to use?

Most on eBay only confirm the donor vehicle year- might help on likely condition but not on confirmation of fit). However, I got a fantastic cluster (like new) from a breaker specialist in Northants - through eBay (I have the recipt for the name if you would like it?) - for £110. This came from a 2007 donor S - Type, absolutely like new and fitted a treat. !!  i will eBay my old cluster on ebay as unrefurbished £30 - not bad.

Enjoying a medicinal scotch right now - so please excuse any typos.

Have a good week,

Kind regards

Dominic

 

 

[LairdScooby]

I also try to keep my diet healthy (ish) Dominic for a variety of medical reasons but something i do every morning is instead of sweetener in my second coffee, i have two spoons of runny honey - the natural antiseptic/immune boosting effect seems to ward off most common ills thankfully.

Hmmm, i wonder if perhaps the garage wanted the job of replacing the headlamp to boost their labour revenue? When i first got my S Type, it had fairly bad cataracts on the headlamps and for some unknown reason, people kept flashing me on my first nocturnal outing in it. The lack of forward vision was worrying but i did notice the lights seemed to be pointing everywhere except where they should be!

Further investigation found the adjuster were siezed and broken, allowing the reflectors to move around like a loose leaf in autumn. A reproduction kit from eBay fixed the adjusters and T-Cut and elbow grease polished the lenses back to clear.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225508928142

I needed an extra 2 sets of cogs (one per headlight) as there is only one per headlight supplied. These are for the normal headlights with halogen bulbs (i've fitted LED bulbs in the outer pair, vast improvement!), not the HID/Xenon variety as fitted to the S Type R and (i believe) optional on others.

As far as i'm aware, the normal headlights were the same across production years but make sure the connector plugs look the same just to be on the safe side.

So far, all parts i've wanted/needed have been available on eBay but it's often helped that i am able to do research into what else fits, even if not listed as fitting. For example, a new crank position sensor (CPS) i had to fit just over a year ago :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234276747755

Jaguar and specialists wanted 10x that amount! 😮

Also ordered a screenwash pump which turned out to be shared with the Volvo S80 and a plethora of Fords from the mid-80s onwards including Sierra, Mondeo, transit and other models - Jaguar = £96, Volvo = £48, Ford £24 all for the same pump, eBay £8. I believe they changed the pump on 2002 onwards cars so this may not be relevant for yours but you get the idea!

[Lord Sladacre]

Thats all so well researched by you - and very interesting. Thank you Dave,

No doubt once recovered I shall be in touch. Your depth of knowledge on these and no doubt many other "S"  issues are enormous.

Kind Regards

Dominic  

[LairdScooby]

Thanks Dominic. I've learned a lot about the S Type in the past 18 months or so, it's my 3rd Jag and a total departure from the previous two, a Series III XJ6 Sovereign 4.2 and an XJ40 Sovereign 3.6 - in many respects the S Type is in a bit of a world of its own.

Hope your recovery continues well!

[Lord Sladacre]

hi Dave, Thank you. Today feeling much better and drove from Dorchester to Ridge (Stoborough) - checking out the boat, no unwanted lights on the Jag dashboard. 24 mile round trip.

 

My only constant illuminated companion is the EML. This is persistent inspite of me having it regurlarly "switched off" - the code tells the garage that one of the two cats is not operating at a higher enough temperature. These are £345 each from SNG and time consuming / awkward to fit, suggesting fir the pair and not singularly.

In my effort to preserve £1k I continue to run the car with this light on. Cat aclean, Wynn's and other soultions in the tank appear to work albeit briefly. Other than replacing the cats, would you have any thoughts please Dave?

Thank you in anticipation,

Kind Regards

Dominic 

[LairdScooby]

What is the exact code the is reported Dominic? Usually the Lambda sensors fail rather than the cats and they are considerably cheaper to replace (but ideally need to be replaced as a full set) so i'd be checking the exact code number to ascertain whether it is the Lambda sensor, the heater in the Lambda sensor or whether it is in fact the cat.

With the EML on, you'll be in restricted performance of some description even if not full Limp Mode so you'll have higher fuel bills and reduced performance.

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi Dave,

That is all very scary. The original garage was owned by Andy Mason, a good friend of mine for the years of business (!!) . He recommended the S- Type to me, as he launched the car as a leading memeber of the Jaguar team in the USA (LA - Cal)  back in the day.

He assured me - when the light came on after three / four years of the cause and the importanct fact that it has no other effect on performance / fuel etc. In fact the figs i have quoted you are since the light.

However, given you advice I will now book the car into the "new" garage, for their thoughts and actions.

Thank you Dave, i shall keep you informed.

Kind regards

 

Dominic

 

[LairdScooby]

It's not quite as scary as it may sond Dominic, on each cat there is a pre-cat and a post-cat Lambda sensor which some refer to as Oxygen sensors. The pre-cat sensors check the mixture as it leaves the cylinders and the post-cat sensors check the mixture to ensure there is a higher oxygen content (and therefore lower CO content) to make certain the cats are working.

These sensors have an internal heater to get them to work faster from cold, if it's one of the heaters gone then that sensor won't respond as it should but economy and performance should remain unaffected. It will bring the EML on though as the ECU will detect the heater not working.

Sometimes people misinterpret the heater not working as the cat not getting up to temperature and not working, this isn't always the case though. This is why i asked for the exact code you were getting. I thought you had a code reader from how you mentioned things earlier but re-reading it, i think i was wrong. It's worth investing in even a cheap one so you can read (and often reset) the codes yourself. You can pick them up on eBay for under £20, there are some under a tenner even but very basic.

Will be interested in hearing what this new garage has to say - also it's an MoT failure to have an EML on at the time of the test.

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi Dave,

You are a star - I wish you were my neighbour, you would have free drinks for life ! Flying and boating. (in truth you would probably look to move !)

The previous owner of our current boat owned her for a few years and is in Suffolk and enjoyed the boat -not sure which, port.. Not relevant - put it down to cold / flu fever.

I circumvented the EML light by getting the garage to switch it off - just prior. Illustratres what a nonsensense the MOT is.!  I shall certainly keep you informed on the outcome - and need to buy a code reader, pronto. I need to ask / clarify more details upon the use, cost and reasons, from you please - as presumably the garage wish tioo activate their own decoder reader and charge accordingly.  

Pathetically still in the grip of the plague - however, forced myself out with 10 month old grandon and and my wife, feel it was okay..................

Thank you Dave, have a good w/e

Regards

Dominic

 

[LairdScooby]

Crikey Dominic, i'd be a cheap neighbour as i barely drink!

Was it Southwold? Many pleasure boats seem to find their way there.

Switching the EML off just before the MoT is definitely one way round the problem, someone did that with my Honda before i bought it and i've had fun and games sorting it out as it wasn't as simple as a duff sensor! Turned out to be a brake problem that i'm currently fighting my way through - latest thing i will be fitting is a replacement ABS ECU/modulator assembly but many of the problems have been caused by poor and/or neglected servicing.

When i get a minute (or 10!) i'll trawl eBay and find what should be a suitable OBD code reader and post a link on here for you.

[LairdScooby]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134657907825

There you are Dominic, that should do everything you need it to do and it has free updates via USB so you can download to your PC then link to this unit and update it.

Might even get one myself, i have an i-Carsoft JLR OBD-II reader that i bought used but as new condition from someone on here but would be handy to keep one of these in the Honda (especially at the moment!) insted of the i-Carsoft one.

[Lord Sladacre]

Hi Dave,

I'm very grateful to you - you really shouldnt have spent the time on locating this !!

Today driving from Dorchester to Beaminster (visiting our son, partner and 11 mth grand daughter) all was well and then, yes, the "DSC Not Available" light illuminated - and remained on. As i had had a new "ABS Fault" sensor fitted to the code identified wheel (o/s rear) last week, the lights did not progress to "ABS Fault" or "Gear box Fault" - so the sequence was broken. 

I swill book the car in to Crossways Garage (Woodsford) on Monday, with a list of current / update on work as it is a new arrival for them. They come very well recommended - although not Jaguar specialists.

Thank you for your advice and patience !

I will keep you posted.

Regards

Dominic

PS: Southwold - I believe you are right !

[LairdScooby]

Hmmmm, sounds like what i refer to as a "compound fault" - one that has one set of symptoms but multiple causes. These usually only become apparent when one of them is fixed and cures part of the fault.

It does sond like the catalogue of problems i have had with my Honda which started when i got it with the EML on and 12 1/2 months MoT - alarm bells immediately!

The code putting the EML on was the knock sensor, Honda very cleverly hid this tiny little sensor where only contortionists with the reach of Guy the Gorilla and fingers/hands as small as Thumbelina could reach it. I had to create a tool using my 1/4" drive socket set and some 6mm bore fuel hose and a few other imaginative bits to be able to change it. All was good until the front brakes decided to start binding for no apparent reason, throwing the engine load/mixture out and causing the knock sensor light to reappear, aided and abetted by the PCV valve being weak and the hose to said PCV valve collapsing when warm. All of this has largely been intermittent so has been a nightmare to track down and much of it has been guesswork/hunches but on the upside, it has still been reliable.

It's reading between the lines on fault codes on many occasions that lead to the real fault.