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S-Type trackday


JustBadly
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Wow! Pics look great Justin, although I couldn't see the video. How did she go and what model do you have? I had/have ambitions to do something similar. Our local car club take over Goodwood on occasion and I was hoping to jump on that. But I'm in the process of recommissioning my S-Type so it may be awhile before that happens 🤞

 

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Good video, what exhausts did you fit and any chance of a video from the back please? Also what engine? I'm looking for some new back boxes (planning to fit some time after easter so not a tearing hurry) so any recommendations are useful.

Looked a good track day, fairly perdictable the smaller cars built only for track days were going past flat out, after all you don't want an "off" in your road car! 😉 😄

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The exhaust are a straight-thru with the mid silencers retained. Silent on tickover but plenty loud at high rpm. You can get these at drive in exhaust shops for £3-400 and a few hours. It's the 2.5 auto and the gears were tricky, I was thinking that if I selected the max gear to run on a straight with the 'J' gate it would be better than just using sport mode. Can't give you a rear facing camera cause I don't have one. Watch out for the tyres you use, if you look carefully at the 1st picture the rear tyre is folding over on the tread. It's Toyo's on the front and some cheapo hack on the back. They were about done so I didn't mind doing the trackday with them. Luckily I didn't have a blowout. The engine was faultless I have to say, I did about 60 laps. Everything got fairly hot but I've already done a racing conversion for the liquid cooling and it's biased to run cool. You can see the fitment of the thermostatic valve in this picture - guess the rest!

IMG_20220620_192051.jpg

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39 minutes ago, JustBadly said:

The exhaust are a straight-thru with the mid silencers retained. Silent on tickover but plenty loud at high rpm. You can get these at drive in exhaust shops for £3-400 and a few hours.

Ah, right, thanks - these are the ones that are currently top of my list :

https://www.adamesh.co.uk/s-type-performance-exhaust---25l-30l-1138-p.asp

41 minutes ago, JustBadly said:

Can't give you a rear facing camera cause I don't have one.

That wasn't what i meant - i meant can you video the back end of the car to give me an idea of the sound of it please?

I'm not sure about doing a track day as yet, i notice you are wearing a crash helmet, presumably that's a safety requirement? If so, are there any others?

 

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The video decided to work today 🙂 Looked like you were taking it pretty easy Justin, guess you didn't want to blow her up or run off the road if you were driving home!

Did you say you routed the air intake to inside the engine bay? This might not be the best thing, as you want as cool a charge for the engine as you can, rather than the warm engine bay air. Perhaps I misunderstood. I've secured the intake from an STR that I intend to fashion onto my 3.0 Sport manual. The std 3.0 takes air from inside the inner wing, but it goes through a hard 90° to do it, so I saw room for improvement there.

After a long search I've finally found the awesome Adamesh rear silencers, so I have some nice stainless straight through rear silencers for sale if anyone wants them? They have a small stainless silencer on them, smaller than the Adamesh, and much smaller and lighter than the huge standard ones, with a nice burble on idle and a rising crescendo at high revs! 👊

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Russ68 said:

I've secured the intake from an STR that I intend to fashion onto my 3.0 Sport manual. The std 3.0 takes air from inside the inner wing, but it goes through a hard 90° to do it, so I saw room for improvement there.

Sometimes you can't improve on what the manufacturer has done Russ, especially with either variable length intake runners or variable valve timing. On my other beast that i'm still trying to decide whether to sell or restore, it has variable length intakes and a strange looking air intake system that not only takes air from the inside of the wing but also has a resonator box there. Many people junked the OE air filter housing and this resonator arrangement and stuffed a big cone type air filter with a cold air feed in place of it. Then they wondered why it was noisy, gutless and thirsty.

They were losing all the pulse tuning advantages designed in originally.

I'm not saying your ideas won't work, just that you may have to be prepared to rethink at some point. Perhaps an alternative form of air intake cooling would be a better option?

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5 hours ago, LairdScooby said:

Sometimes you can't improve on what the manufacturer has done Russ, especially with either variable length intake runners or variable valve timing. On my other beast that i'm still trying to decide whether to sell or restore, it has variable length intakes and a strange looking air intake system that not only takes air from the inside of the wing but also has a resonator box there. Many people junked the OE air filter housing and this resonator arrangement and stuffed a big cone type air filter with a cold air feed in place of it. Then they wondered why it was noisy, gutless and thirsty.

They were losing all the pulse tuning advantages designed in originally.

I'm not saying your ideas won't work, just that you may have to be prepared to rethink at some point. Perhaps an alternative form of air intake cooling would be a better option?

You may be right Dave, with 240bph, the 3.0 has an excellent output  and was pretty well thought out before leaving the factory. They're aren't a lot of 'low hanging fruit' in regards easy gains for power or efficiency (if I've overlooked any, please let me know! 😆).

But I thought the Jag designed STR intake, which is a fab looking scoop affair made for 400bhp in this car, would likely draw more air than the standard 3.0 rather convoluted system, here's a pic of it: 2006 S-TYPE R Engine pic.jpg

If I can't marry this up or getting running smoothly it will be easy to revert to the standard intake. I bought it from a breaker for not a great deal of money, so it's worth a try IMHO. Nothing ventured nothing gained etc.

BTW, we had a discussion about just this on this forum in 2016, I can probably dig out a link or it's easy to find should anyone be interested 😉 

 

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1 hour ago, Russ68 said:

You may be right Dave, with 240bph, the 3.0 has an excellent output  and was pretty well thought out before leaving the factory. They're aren't a lot of 'low hanging fruit' in regards easy gains for power or efficiency (if I've overlooked any, please let me know! 😆).

I have to agree there Russ, the Mazda version is ~205bhp, Fords version ~225bhp and Jaguar tweaked it somewhat more to get the 240bhp. As you suggest, not much room for easy power gains. There may be some to be had from using 98 octane or a very simple water injection system if - and it's a big "if" - the Visteon engine management advances the ignition timing and then retards a little when it detects knock like the Honda PGM-Fi system does. If it sets the timing at a standard figure and only retards it by a few degrees when it detects knock then after a given period without knock, reverts to standard like the older Bosch LH-Jetronic and Motronic then the water injection wouldn't help to boost power.

I have a feeling it is the former as mine is converted to LPG (which is ~105RON) and mine tends to go better on gas than petrol, like my 827 Coupe did (i converted that one, never got round to doing the Sterling) because the Rover used the Hodna engine and PGM-Fi system.

Thanks to a failed CPU fan on my old PC, i lost all the useful documentation i had on water injection but it was a very simple system, essentially using a hypodermic needle as the measuring jet with a small bore hose into a water reservoir and the needle is inserted into a ported vacuum hose, in simple terms functioning as a crude main jet from a carburettor in days of old.

However, i still have a functional system on the Rover which i can probably transfer to the S Type to try it if nothing else.

Your idea for grafting the STR air scoop in should work, it should pick up air from the radiator grille area so should be cooler than engine bay air and you may even get a bit of "ram effect" at high speed - probably negligible in terms of power gain though.

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20 minutes ago, LairdScooby said:

I have to agree there Russ, the Mazda version is ~205bhp, Fords version ~225bhp and Jaguar tweaked it somewhat more to get the 240bhp. As you suggest, not much room for easy power gains. There may be some to be had from using 98 octane or a very simple water injection system if - and it's a big "if" - the Visteon engine management advances the ignition timing and then retards a little when it detects knock like the Honda PGM-Fi system does. If it sets the timing at a standard figure and only retards it by a few degrees when it detects knock then after a given period without knock, reverts to standard like the older Bosch LH-Jetronic and Motronic then the water injection wouldn't help to boost power.

I have a feeling it is the former as mine is converted to LPG (which is ~105RON) and mine tends to go better on gas than petrol, like my 827 Coupe did (i converted that one, never got round to doing the Sterling) because the Rover used the Hodna engine and PGM-Fi system.

Thanks to a failed CPU fan on my old PC, i lost all the useful documentation i had on water injection but it was a very simple system, essentially using a hypodermic needle as the measuring jet with a small bore hose into a water reservoir and the needle is inserted into a ported vacuum hose, in simple terms functioning as a crude main jet from a carburettor in days of old.

However, i still have a functional system on the Rover which i can probably transfer to the S Type to try it if nothing else.

Your idea for grafting the STR air scoop in should work, it should pick up air from the radiator grille area so should be cooler than engine bay air and you may even get a bit of "ram effect" at high speed - probably negligible in terms of power gain though.

Interesting that Dave! From what I know about water injection, I thought it was mainly to stop pre-ignition in high compression and forced induction engines. But you think it may be a benefit to a normally aspirated S-Type?

I think the Rocketeer guys who are dropping the Jag AJ-V6 into Maxda MX5s are claiming ~255bhp mainly from improvements to the inlet manifold (they have 2 low profile ones for the conversion). So with this in mind I have secured a couple of spare manifolds and want to have a look at cleaning up the castings and ensuring  it's all as good as can be. Plush an external polish for a bit of engine bay bling!

I had bigger plans in the early days of my S-Type ownership and considered such craziness as NO2 and turbo charging. But now I just want to get her back on the road in a relatively stock form. Excepting the manifold work, Adamesh pipes and STR induction I mentioned before. I also have the rare 275/35/18 rear wheels from an STR which fill out the rear arches beautifully!

I also undertake any servicing and repair using high quality OEM parts. Gone are the days where I may have thought that an amateur fettler such as myself could really improve on Jaguar engineering. Rather I want to ensure she's running as well as designed, with a little bit of help here and there to make her as dynamic as possible and best suited to my needs 🙂 

 

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1 hour ago, Russ68 said:

Interesting that Dave! From what I know about water injection, I thought it was mainly to stop pre-ignition in high compression and forced induction engines. But you think it may be a benefit to a normally aspirated S-Type?

During the war.................... 😛 - in fact that really was when it happened! The pilots of the WW II aircraft noticed on damp days, they would get more power and economy, especially at higher altitudes. Supercharging was used to get round the thinner atmosphere to keep the planes flying and then you had other engines without it, both gave better performance in cold, wet weather it seems. These days with modern engine management, the difference might be "muffled" somewhat by the electronics but i'm sure there are still gains to be found.

1 hour ago, Russ68 said:

I think the Rocketeer guys who are dropping the Jag AJ-V6 into Maxda MX5s are claiming ~255bhp mainly from improvements to the inlet manifold (they have 2 low profile ones for the conversion).

I thought they were claiming 276bhp through the lack of catalytic converters, based on the early MX-5s not needing a cat because they were built pre-1992? Not heard about inlet manifold improvements. A 15% increase on 240bhp is 36bhp and it's generally reckoned to be a 15% improvement removing the cat on any engine. Or at least it used to be, some people are now claiming there is no difference but a cat, by its very nature, is restrictive. Will be interesting to find out if some of the extra power is attributable to the inlet manifold! I remember when i had my Jeep XJ Cherokee, a popular mod in the USA was to fit a spacer between the inlet manifold and throttle body. This increased the volume of the inlet manifold and also increased the length between inlet valve head and throttle creating a longer inlet pulse which would improve torque. A shorter inlet manifold should increase power by reversing that theory so it could well be.

 

2 hours ago, Russ68 said:

I had bigger plans in the early days of my S-Type ownership and considered such craziness as NO2 and turbo charging. But now I just want to get her back on the road in a relatively stock form. Excepting the manifold work, Adamesh pipes and STR induction I mentioned before. I also have the rare 275/35/18 rear wheels from an STR which fill out the rear arches beautifully!

It sounds like you have good plans for your S-Type Russ, good idea concentrating on getting the important bits running and worry about the power later. I'm still learning how mine drives, where to position my right foot for the best acceleration so it keeps within the VVT power band with each shift and so on. In nearly 40 years of (legal) driving, until recently there was only one car that always put a grin on my face from driving it, that was my 827 Sterling, this S-Type is the second. I hope your recommissioing project gives you as much pleasure when it comes to fruition! 😉 😄

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