Starter motor removal help, 2006 S-TYPE R

[The Voices]

Purchased a new starter motor and planned to fit it today.

 

Got the car up on the ramp and removed the undertray, according to 'Topix' the starter motor on the V8 is only held on by two 'bolts' (they actually appear to be nuts ?)

 

The V6 and diesel models are different.

 

Bottom nut is clearly visible, it has a second nut attached that secures the earth lead.

 

The top nut cannot be seen using any method that I have at my disposal.

 

I can reach in and feel it, it's a 13 mm, but trying to get anything on it to loosen it is proving to be very awkward.

 

Managed to get an 'S' shaped spanner onto it and managed to move it by a fraction but can't seem to get any of my 13 mm ratchet spanners onto it.

 

Has anyone tackled this job who can provide any hints or tips ?

Starter motor removal and refit.pdf

[JOE-DOT-COM]

HI

For most of the awkward bolts, I bought Facom rotator ratchets, I was that impressed with them I got all 3 sets, 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2"

basically its like a normal ratchet, but you can also just rotate the handle and the socket spins, its save me a lot of hassel on my S-type R, especially when doing the valley pipe, when ive done timing belts on various cars its saved me hours in work.

also using a wobble extension on the socket also means you can get the socket on the bolt at various angles

wobble extention

Facom rotator ratchet

 

[Big John]

Not sure but this might help:

 

[The Voices]

Thank you.

I have one of those 'twist handle' ratchets, but there is no way to get a socket onto the 'hidden' nut from any angle that I can see, the starter motor body is in the way.

Also thanks for the 'You Tube' video, unfortunately it is for the V6 version, so the bolt holes are in different positions than the V8 starter.

I did wonder whether once the bottom nut is removed the starter motor could be turned slightly to get better access, then realised that the thread will still be sticking through the mounting hole !

I presume they have used nuts onto studs instead of bolts, because there would be no room to undo and extract a 30 mm long bolt.

 

 

 

[The Voices]

Someone on the American forum found another video for me.

The trick is to use a combination of socket and extension, plus a flexible joint.

Fixings are actually a threaded stud with a welded nut, so the whole thing unscrews as one piece.

Hopefully, this should make the job do-able when I next have access to the ramp.

 

 

[The Voices]

Finally managed to get time to fit the new starter today.

No idea why I bothered, as ironically the car has started first time, every time for the last 2 weeks ! 

I can honestly say that extricating the top 'hidden' bolt is one of the most stressful car maintenance jobs that I have ever undertaken.

It is a 13 mm headed bolt, not a 'stud / nut' like the lower one.

Access is absolutely awful, you cannot even see it to get a spanner / socket on it.

I managed to get about another half turn using an 's' shaped obstruction spanner and then after dozens of attempts, got a 13 mm 1/4 drive socket on it by attaching it to a 150 mm extension and a universal joint to clear the engine mounting.

You have to basically feed the extension in down the side of the starter motor and then try to guide the socket onto the bolt head.

I was then lucky enough to be able to undo it with another long 1/4 extension connected to the universal joint.

So far, so good..................................

Then actually getting the starter motor out of the gap is another excercise in frustration.

You have to twist and turn it at every angle imaginable to avoid damaging the oxygen sensor wires on the catalytic converter.

Of course everything has sharp edges, wearing nitrile gloves is a waste of time, as they either split almost instantly or get cut to ribbons.

My hands look like I have been attacked by angry cats.

Once removed, you have to repeat the same process to get the new one back in place.

The bottom stud is easy to get back in but the top bolt was hell on earth.

Once again working blind and mostly by 'feel', it must have taken 30 attempts to get the bolt and the extension assembly into place, as there is no room to 'start' the bolt into the hole by hand.

Using the same combination of extensions and the flexible joint allowed me to tighten it up for several turns, but it then became almost impossible.

The bolt is approximately 50 mm long, so needs a lot of turns to get it tight enough to do the job.

At this stage I was worried that I had managed to cross thread it, so had to call on the assistance of one of our technicians, who was doubt muttering '!Removed! amateurs' under his breath.

He kindly had a look and had to undo the bolt to be able to check for any damage to the threads.

Again, by a stroke of luck, the threads weren't damaged.

He then had as much trouble as me trying to get the bolt / extension assembly back into place, when he did, the same problem occurred, seemed to be tightening up well, and then became very hard to turn.

Only thing we could think was that the universal joint was now binding against the starter body as the bolt tightened.

This resulted in him raiding everyones toolbox to try to find a different universal joint or alternative extension / socket combination.

A different joint and a longer handled 1/4 ratchet allowed him to finally tighten the bolt, with much colourful language when he had to hold everything in place whilst one of the other technicians had to find an alternative ratchet to the first one he tried.

I then finished up connecting the cables and made sure it would still start before refitting the undertray.

Still starting first time, so no idea whether the new started has fixed anything or whether the fault has just 'gone to ground' for a while ?

A couple of things have subsequently occurred to me:

If doing it again (please, no !), I might be tempted to try a flexible extension drive, usually used for power screwdrivers.

I have one the seems quite sturdy and allegedly rated for use with an impact driver.

If I put a 13 mm 'nut driver' on the extension and then push it down the starter motor body, I wouldn't need a universal joint, as the extension itself will bend to clear the engine mount.

By using the 13 mm 'S' spanner to get a couple of turns on the bolt to initially loosen it, the flexible extension won't be under as much strain when undoing it the rest of the way.

The second thing that has been on my mind is the following:

On my first attempt at the starter, I gave up and got on with replacing the headlamp washer pump instead.

When I removed the wheel arch liner, one of the wires had come out of the plug going to the headlamp washer motor and was just 'floating' with a metal spade connector. 

The wires themselves also looked as though they had been trapped or damaged at some point, with some technical assistance, the spade connector was refitted to the plastic housing and the wires covered with insulating tape.

I don't see how this could have any bearing on the intermittent 'non start' problem, but from that day, it has always started first time ?