Cheap, high mileage S-Type R, should I ?

[The Voices]

New hoses have arrived, I am severely stressed out attempting to fit the short hose from the thermostat housing.

 

There is just no room to work and the hose is so short that it is very difficult to bend it into place.

Given up to it for today to avoid taking the sledge hammer to the car.

 

I would like to get hold of the guy that decided on this design and cut his fingers off with a set of bolt cutters !

[Russ68]

Crikey Jon, bad luck! Having started on classic Minis and still owning an MGF, I generally luxuriate in the access on the Jag. But mine is not the V8, and this does sound extreme! Hope you get it sorted 

[The Voices]

I used to work on old Fords, you could practically climb into the engine bay and walk around it !

The problem is that the hose is not very flexible and getting any type of clamp into place is proving to be difficult.

 

If I try to re-use the 'spring' type clamp, access is very poor to hold the clip open to slide it down the hose.

Next idea was to use a 'jubilee' type hose clip but then I can't seem to get access to the nut to tighten it up.

 

Not really in the mood to mess with it after work, I leave at 7.30am and get back around 7.30pm, so by the time I have eaten and got changed it is not worth bothering.

[Russ68]

Bad luck old chap, although I'm similar on the hours. We bought out our business last year and I regularly do 60+ a week. Today doing 10am (after 8am-9pm yest) to 11pm today. The bonus being the roads are clearer and I drive the Jag back! 

She's working beautifully, and I'm sure the exhausts have increased performance. She sounds faster at least! I've had the tyres stripped from the new staggered alloys and will spray them and refit next week. 

Can't wait to Goodwood in December. Gonna change all fluids before then and bring spare tyres. Hoping to wear out the Winruns so I can get Nexens all round. Shame you won't be there as interested to see what a manual sport is like against an STR. Imagine you'd be loads quicker 

[easydebt]

Hi to all

having read most of this topic with interest and not having contributed to the club's forums before, I thought I would add my experience.

I only had my STR for 5 months, I thought I had got the best possible example, from condition, loads of invoices for work done and a FDSH on 95k. It was an '02 in Zircon Blue. I was really happy with the car, cruising at just under 2000rpm on a long motorway journey, it would even do 30mpg, not that that was ever a priority. Performance was good, not far off the 5ltr XKR I had a few years ago, although slightly blunted by the auto's insistence on changing up too early, even if in 'manual' selection. The XKR had the same box and another 100bhp, but presumably different software?

I had the rot in the sills, fortunately only small patches both sides about 20cm back from the front end and easily fixed. The rear subframe was also found heavily surface-rusted but still solid. The infamous hose under the supercharger was still intact but a local garage said they all go at my mileage, however they could do it for about £300 depending on exactly what ancillaries needed replacing, rather than the £1000+ I'd heard about. I also had occasional slight surging in revs under light load at 1700rpm in Sports mode, rumour was this was a failing torque converter, but it didn't do it in Normal mode.

At 98k, cruising at low revs, an engine rattle developed. Turned out to be one of the main bearing caps had fretted loose, lunching the bottom end. Despite my understanding these engines have a bulletproof reputation, the marque specialist who took it in told me they now get a steady stream of these engines letting go in this manner at these miles. The cheapest (!) option was another second-hand engine with just a 30 day warranty, at £4300 all in!! After much soul-searching, I decided to scrap the car, not least over the dawning realisation that even with another engine, the car had reached a point where lots of things were quite easily going to cost big money, e.g. found the headlamp washers had failed, no obvious fix, needed for next MOT due to being fitted and with xenon lamps, complete bumper-off job, intermittent ABS sensor fail, the aforementioned hose?, seat and pedal position memory fail etc etc.

Still a big Jag fan, lots of other makes have their own faults, it was the engine fail I wanted to mention as it was a shock to me, but apparently starting to become known in the trade, same with LR's as they use the same engine.

[Old Peter]

Welcome to the club, Alan.

The club is about sharing experiences which really does assist other members. 

Hope you will continue to do so,  and also enjoy the club.

Regards, 

Peter.

[easydebt]

Many thanks Peter, don't worry I will. I continue to be afflicted by the Jaguar bug, with a '69 E Type which will stay with me to the end .

I'm certainly not averse to another Jag as a daily driver, maybe when I'm fully retired and don't need to do many miles. I'll swallow the stereotype about retired people and jags when I can say "Oi I resemble that remark!".

I know forums can get keyboard warriors, some people can turn nasty when someone challenges their almighty knowledge, also the internet can exaggerate problems with specific cars so that you'd never buy anything! This was just my experience, I'm over it now (twitch twitch!),  a well sorted STR in rude health is a conspicuous bargain and a hoot to drive.

[Russ68]

Hi Alan,

Sounds like bad luck there old chap! I'm guessing £4300 was an installed cost for the engine and I'm seeing second hand ones from c£1K. I'm glad I do my own mechanics as paying someone to fix and maintain would be expensive!

All the best, Russ

[Old Peter]

Hi Alan,

We sold one car when I retired as my wife had fallen out with her  Red Escort EFI convertible.  So we have only had one car for 17 years, two of them being Jaguars.

Being a youthful 82, my S Type 2.7 D keeps me young!

We are lucky that we don't have keyboard warriors or nasty people in the club.  We have had a few though, but they don't stay, usually after some positive advice from the Moderators!

Regards,

Peter.

[easydebt]

Thanks Russ. Yes fully installed at £4300 and at first I thought that was way OTT. I did find out after scrapping the car that a better deal was advertised by London Car Solutions, same cost but with a fully-reconditioned engine. I did also look at it as a DIY prospect, costing it all up with a 20% margin for snags at £2500, after all I've done all the things like engines in a TR7V8, bikes, I've changed suspension bushes and reluctor rings on a S Type before, been messing about with motors for 40 years now. But I was doubtful on this one and a couple of mates took one look under the bonnet and pronounced themselves unavailable, permanently; a friend of mine in the trade pointed out that the quotes/offers seen would inevitably turn out higher; he himself had tried to remove the radiator from a 10 year old S Type and after an hour of struggling and cursing, the core disintegrated in his hands.

It's the cost against the value of the car for me you see Russ, I was gutted but I think I let my head rule my heart. They're an impressive car, although a bit Marmite to a lot of people and yet to go up in value. Good ones might well do so sometime, especially as they become rarer partly 'cos people like me let them go to the Great Yard in the Sky. They're lovely to drive, very relaxing, classy in their own way yet with real performance on tap. So back to the OP, is it worth a gamble? Hell yes providing you can accept the risk of losing your money (but same with a Merc or BMW or anything prestige but now old), that's why they are now such bargains to buy. A work colleague recently bought his dream car, a 3.4 996, delighted it came with £9k worth of reconditioned engine at only 45k miles (the infamous cylinder cracking had occurred), so why was it being sold very soon after? Needless to say he's had loads of problems including failing variocam solenoids (£2k+ repair), rotted radiators and the car's only worth £15k tops. Same thing not exclusive to the S Type.

[The Voices]

It is the kind of car where one major failure can write it off but I knew that when I bought it.

My next day off is Wednesday so will probably leave it until then to mess about with the annoying hose.

I just want to get it driveable so that I can get it to my mechanic, he can replace the other hoses and thermostat and bleed the system.

[The Voices]

20 hours ago, Russ68 said:

Bad luck old chap, although I'm similar on the hours. We bought out our business last year and I regularly do 60+ a week. Today doing 10am (after 8am-9pm yest) to 11pm today. The bonus being the roads are clearer and I drive the Jag back! 

She's working beautifully, and I'm sure the exhausts have increased performance. She sounds faster at least! I've had the tyres stripped from the new staggered alloys and will spray them and refit next week. 

Can't wait to Goodwood in December. Gonna change all fluids before then and bring spare tyres. Hoping to wear out the Winruns so I can get Nexens all round. Shame you won't be there as interested to see what a manual sport is like against an STR. Imagine you'd be loads quicker 

Hi Russ, glad all going well.

At the moment a 2CV is faster than my STR !

 

I had to drive the Impreza on Wednesday so that Sue could use my XE.

It was a lot of fun for a while but not for any great distance, very uncomfortable and rattles a lot !

Mind you, the roads were damp and all four wheels getting 'squirrelly' under power is awesome.

[easydebt]

Just noticed Russ68 planning to fit Nexens. My STR came with fairly new ones, I have to say in 5000 miles use I found them to be excellent, more grip than is sensible to use on the public road, quiet and comfortable riding. I'm not a tyre snob and realise you don't get to test and reject a selection of tyres on the same car, same road and same weather conditions, so it can be a bit of a pig in a poke with one person's opinion countering another's. Can't comment on wear really, except I've had Nexens before (Civic and a Citroen Relay) and they seemed reasonable on that one..

[Claws]

8 hours ago, The Voices said:

It is the kind of car where one major failure can write it off but I knew that when I bought it.

My next day off is Wednesday so will probably leave it until then to mess about with the annoying hose.

I just want to get it driveable so that I can get it to my mechanic, he can replace the other hoses and thermostat and bleed the system.

Jon

is getting her picked up on a flat bed an option? Cost involved of course, but save a lot of hassle for you and reduce the amount of money going in the swear box!

 

[The Voices]

Hi Steve, flat bed collection is my last resort.

The other option is to kidnap Andy and make him fix it by the roadside !

I will need to tow his 'Snap On' toolbox behind the car however !

[The Voices]

23 hours ago, easydebt said:

Just noticed Russ68 planning to fit Nexens. My STR came with fairly new ones, I have to say in 5000 miles use I found them to be excellent, more grip than is sensible to use on the public road, quiet and comfortable riding. I'm not a tyre snob and realise you don't get to test and reject a selection of tyres on the same car, same road and same weather conditions, so it can be a bit of a pig in a poke with one person's opinion countering another's. Can't comment on wear really, except I've had Nexens before (Civic and a Citroen Relay) and they seemed reasonable on that one..

Thanks for the info regarding the Nexens, I am not usually a brand snob but just paranoid about getting the best wet weather grip on the back of the car.

My 3rd 325i came to a very sticky end out of a damp roundabout (exited backwards at about 50mph) and been driving AWD Imprezas since 2002 so going back to a 'quick' RWD car is a bit nerve wracking !

[The Voices]

Gave in and ordered a pair of Michelin Pilot Sport 4's.

Bought them online from 'tyres Outlet', £158.36 per tyre with free UK delivery.

http://www.tyres-outlet.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl

The weird thing is that they appear to be part of 'mytyres' but prices are lower (about £10 per tyre in this case !)

[Claws]

Hi Jon

Won't the DSC stop the back end twitching, even with 400 BHP?

if you don't mind, can I ask another question, the 'Valley pipe' has been mentioned quite a few times, as a point of concern, what does it do, and what happens if it fails? 

Regards

Steve

[The Voices]

Hi Steve,

The DSC is a reasonable safety net, but in the words of Star Treks' Scotty, 'you cannae change the laws of physics !'

The 'valley pipe' is a coolant pipe located in the 'v' of the engine, under the supercharger.

They are prone to failure at 100k miles or so, the pipe itself is reasonably cheap but the labour involved, including removal and refitting the supercharger, is quite expensive.

Dealer prices can easily be upwards of £1,000 to replace the pipe.

[Claws]

Thanks Jon

Wow! That's costly, certainly something to think about when I start looking, the mileage will now take on even more significance for me 

Steve

[The Voices]

Steve, I would look at the overall condition and evidence of servicing and repairs rather than low mileage.

For example, you might find the lowest mileage, most expensive 2002 STR but most of the components would still be 14 years old.

In the case of things like rubber hoses, I can't say with any certainty that it is mileage, age or the number of 'heat cycles' that the hose has been through that cause the failure ?

My personal theory is that, generally, the manufacturer irons out more of the problems as the model life of a car continues, so buy the newest that I can for the budget.

 

My 'budget' high mileage STR stands me at less than half the price of the similar age cars on Autotrader.

Some of those cars are still on 80k+ miles, which might be low mileage on a 2006 registered vehicle but for me does not justify the extra expense.

Who knows, I might have spent the extra and still had some teething troubles and the associated expense ?

 

 

[Old Peter]

I looked for an S Type with an 07 or 06 plate, that had as many bells and whistles as possible, making sure that certain extras were there.

I was shown one 6 years  old with 48k on the clock  ----   8k a year  --  a reasonable mileage, and then all found out via the service record, which was complete - had had an engine changed by Jaguar under warranty.

Plus the fact that the price was quite good for the condition the car was in, which was immaculate.

[Russ68]

I agree with Jon, modern engines are not like the old days where you'd have to have the heads of to decoke them and they needed rebuilding regularly. Having a nice low mileage example is good from a vanity / bragging rights point of view, but is no great indication of condition or reliability. Sometimes the worst thing that can happen to a car is it not being used, or only used on short trips, both of which are more likely with a low miler than a high miler. I'm guessing that an 80K example may (not) have had the valley pipe done, a 130K one almost certainly will have. Just IMHO, but I wouldn't be hung up on the mileage, go on condition and history and finding one in the spec and age you're looking for .

[The Voices]

Day off tomorrow so going to have another go at the hose !

Getting the 'bottom' clamp on is the problem but I have a few ideas to try, so fingers crossed !

[JOE-DOT-COM]

Hi Jon

I'd be tempted to change the expansion tank cap

there usually a little breather valve built into the cap, so when the system cools, it can suck air back into the expansion tank

looking at your hoses how they have collapsed, there should only ever be pressure in there and when the system cools the cap is suppose to let air into the expansion tank to stop a vacuum being created and causing hoses to collapse

might be worth swapping the cap

cheers

joe