TJM

DPF - how bad does it get

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Hi all,

So, having just lavished £1500 on a service on my (new to me) 2014 XF I then got the dreaded amber DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) warning less than a week later.

In my case it was  Amber warning saying 'DPF Full' but not the Red warning which is apparently worse.

This car is new to me and despite having a 2008 diesel engined BMW I was blissfully unaware of the DPF debacle until this happened as my 2008 car hasn't been castrated with a DPF.

I should be clear here that this is an industry problem affecting most 2009 diesel cars and is not confined to Jaguar

So having then read an awful lot online about this it seems in summary that the DPF is a device imposed upon all diesel engined cars from 2009 by a witless government in a knee jerk reaction to climate change in response to European Legislation (and subsequently implemented in a similar half arsed fashion by most car makers).


So, In my case I made a point of not using the car until last weekend (i used the dirtier BMW instead). I had a good run lined up (50 miles each way) and my warning cleared about 45mins into the journey and hasnt come back on since however I have absolutely no idea of the state that my DPF is in which seems like something I really should be able to view on the console screen as it's clearly quite a relevant item.

Because I have no idea of DPF state I have booked car in to my local Jag specialist who tells me that he can see the current DPF level and can also initiate a clean (which seems to involve him driving it round the M25 in the early hours while his laptop is connected to the ECU in my car telling him what speed to drive at) as he runs through a 'forced clean' process.

I would just like to get a feel for what you other XF owners have experienced

If you have a solution please share it!

If you are also new to the DPF problem then I hope this topic will grow to help us all out!

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other people also on here have had the same experience as yourself, but as you say like the bmw you don't have to worry about DPF !... well this is the same for my 2.0d x type as it only has the catalectic.  you should also be able to drive the car no matter what speed you do and not have the DPF light come on, to me I would find this very annoying ! and not have to take the car for a good blast down a motorway just to burn off exhaust gasses and clear the lights.. that's if it works.. any way good luck....dave

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Hi Tim, 

I do a lot of short runs and find that using one of the various additives does assist with keeping the EGR valves and the DPF clean. My 2.7 Diesel also gets fed on Shell Vitro plus [ or whatever the premium diesel is called] and i have never had a problem.  Preventative maintenance.

Also I did treat the car to a terraclean service two years ago and it did make a difference.

The DPF was added to some diesel engines in 2006 but not all, - only to those that did not meet EU4 directive.  My son's 2.0 litre diesel on his x type does not have a DPF.

Regards,

Peter.

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I have my inspection later today so will probably learn tomorrow what state mine is actually in.

I note that a growing number of companies are offering services to 'clean' the DPF (and I would imagine this will be a growth market in coming years as the emissions rules have been raised yet again on newest diesel cars).

 

The treatments seem to involve either

1. DPF removal and clean (which is common for lorries), this would be my ideal if its cheap enough and really does clear out the soot buildup

2. a chemical clean process where the front sensor (just before DPF) is removed so that a pipe can be inserted, then the mechanic injects a foam chemical cocktail into the DPF which is blown through while the engine is running - After this is done the ECU is instructed to perform a DPF clean and you are then given the car back and advised to drive along at about 55mph for 30 mins to complete a normal DPF clean cycle.

 

to be continued..!

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The DPF potential issues were the reason why I sold my XF 3.0D S. I didn't have any problems with it, but had retired so was doing more short journies, and just wanted to get rid of the worry that the DPF might cause problems.

It has even been known to cause the engine to run out of control at full throttle, due to diesel getting into the oil, which is a truly frightening prospect in a 300bhp vehicle. The only way of stopping it if that happens is to put it in neutral, and let the engine rev itself to destruction.

Having said all of this, I suspect that those who worry about their DPF (of whom I was one) are far greater in number than those who have any actual problem with it.

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I have got the ultimate solution to the DPF issue and its relation to short trips.

I will not do any more short trips to places like supermarkets, garden centres etc in my Jaguar 2.7D.

I have bought SWMBO a car  --  A Toyota Yaris Hybrid. It is currently averaging 76.3 mpg, and the Road Fund licence is £0.

Peter. 

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If you use quality diesel like Shell Nitro+ or the BP Ultimate, these both have additives that will help your DPF regenerate more efficiently. You can also buy DPF additive to add to the fuel and if you are really concerned you can buy an ODB interface that will force a regen at the press of a button. Lots of short journey's are the biggest problem for DPF's.

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Thanks for the comments all good stuff

Funnily enough I have purchased an ODB interface but not sure which software product to use - any recommendations this would be for a windows 10 pc) ?

I filled up with Shell before I took it in and will continue with that now.

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OK, just had a call from the mechanic

The DPF level is apparently shown to him on screen as a value in g/m3 (Grammes per cubic metre) in his JLR software.

The mechanic confirmed that mine had recently successfully done a regen (on my recent journey down the A3 - which I had used for the purpose) this was not obvious at the time as it's all done cloak and dagger style which is one of the problems as it would be nice to be aware of the activity.

 

.. So anyway my soot level today is ..  16 g/m3 which is in fact not exessively high at all - thankfully

My vehicle mileage is 87'000 miles which is pretty high for a 3 year old car but as much of this was likely motorway driving I think my DPF is probably based on the above number in a better state than many lower mileage XF's.

He informed me that the higher the soot level the longer it takes to clear, at 60-70g/m3 it takes him several hours of driving under a forced regen to clear it and at that point the cleaning is less effective and at 70 or higher is where he considers replacement options 90+ is a definite replacement as it will never be effectively cleaned in situ.

He is taking my car out this afternoon to force regen it using his laptop and believes he can get the soot level down to around 6 g/m3 which leaves me in a good place.

My bill for this will be around £150+Vat

 

I now plan on getting some software for managing this myself via the ODB connection (and will post details here) - I think that this is an essential given the complexity and black box nature of modern cars - my hope is that I will ideally be able to initiate a regen on any significant motorway journey or when required. It will also allow me to monitor the health of the vehicle generally (and as ODB is standard since about 2003 I can use it on the other family cars too)

to be continued..

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Tim - I am wondering how you got on, and presume you will have seen another thread also dealing with this topic entitled Diesel Owners started in Jan and ongoing.

I am not absolutely sure but I think that it is also important to ensure you use the correct oil.  Interestingly Jag specified a C1 oil for the XF 3.0L D.  This was claimed in 2010 to have been developed between JLR and Castrol .  C1 is very low ash oil and presumably helps to reduce emission products .  I have friends who have XFs and who have not been too fussy regarding oil.  They have also suffered from a lot of DPF warnings. C1 oil is still, even in 2017, not all that easy to find and my Jag dealer was until recently still selling C2 oil for topping up because C1 oil was not available in small quantity! Having queried the issue with Jag HO they were adamant that the only oil they would accept as not invalidating warranty was C1. I had to show the letter from Jag to the dealer before he would believe me!

Anyone else with experience that would confirm or disprove the above?

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I had known about this issue with diesels for some time and indeed, had heard that many thad thought it was scaremongering.  It is not the quality of the oil that is in your car [although I use the oil recommended by Jaguar] but the quantity that is in your sump.

Preventative measures, and using good fuel are important, and those that do this will be rarely, if ever.troubled by the DPF full message .

It is important that you check the oil yourself -- not an exacting task -- rather than depend on what a mechanic tells you, unless you know and trust the mechanic.

I was told when an exhaust was bing fitted that my brake discs needed changing, and that car passed 3 MOTs after that without any change in discs.

Peter,

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Oh no. Just joined because today, without any warning, I got the RED DPF full warning! 😳 I've got a 2013 Sportbrake 3.0 Portfolio, full service history. Engine is very sluggish too. Earliest dealer can look at it is 5 July. Any advice or help much appreciated! Thanks.

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Welcome to the Club Sarah.

It does look as if the DPF has not been regenerated totally. They do need a longer run at over 45 mph for about 20 minutes after reaching full operating temperature.  I would not use the car with the red light on, and if the dealer you use cannot look at the car, you might well  get another dealer to do it or at least advise a course of action.  Wiltshire Jaguar at Swindon are members of the club and a good independent dealer.

I periodically use an additive - Plenty on the market - Diesel Magic etc that assists in keeping the DPF in good condition.

Let us know how you get on.

Regards,

Peter.

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Hi Peter, many thanks for you reply - much appreciated.

The dealer (Fox, Southampton) suggested pretty much the same, despite it being 'red' they said to take it for a run which is a bit scary! I've also got the orange engine management light displayed too.

Because of a family issue, I've had to make a lot of very small trips in it this last week so I'm wondering if this has contributed to the problem too. 

 

Once again, many thanks and I'll keep you posted.

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HI Sarah, 

A plethora of short trips can affect the DPF.  I sometimes get the orange light on, which is usually Code P0402 -- EGR valves not open  --  just ssticky - and a blast on the A38 can work - sometimes.  I use Wynnes diesel power to cure that.

Being retired for the past 18 years I can usually fit in a longish run and since I bought my wife a nice smaller car for our 50th wedding anniversary, the short supermarket runs don't require my car.

Find a DPF cleaning additive and take the car on a run -- this hot weather will get the engine hot a bit quicker  -- and with some luck the DPF will regenerate.

Regards,

Peter

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Forget all these expensive diesel snake oil cleaning additives, The problem lies within the ECU and nothing will compensate if the fuel going in to the engine is not being efficiently burnt leading to an accumulation ash in the DPF, Just have a look at your exhaust tail trims if there not a light grey inside then the engine is not burning fuel correctly! My advice would be to have the ECU remapped and set up correctly to the engine in your car. I always use Quantum tuning as the information from the ECU is sent to their HQ then a rewritten map is returned an hour or later to install back into the ECU all for £299. An average condition 3.0D  241bhp engine will produce 290bhp & Nm575 & the 275bhp engine will produce 325bhp & Nm680 + an easy extra 3-5 mpg over Jaguar quoted mpg figures. I'm not saying once you have a DPF problem going this route will cure it if regenerate hasn't cured the problem? But as prevention before the problem arises.

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I disagree very firmly with Paul. Additives are not expensive, nor are they snake oil.  A can of a suitable additive which you will use less than once a month will cost around £10 and will assist with the DPF Regeneration.

And avoid a remap, quite unnecessary, unless you want to become a boy racer.  The engine which Jaguar have put into your car is a very well designed engine and I would recommend that it is not interfered with.

My s type is 10 years old and runs very sweetly, and I find 208 bhp very powerful.

Peter.

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Hi guys, thanks very much for your replies. I took The Beast for a run up the A303 to clean out his pipes and although the warning sign didn't disappear, it certainly lost some of the sluggishness.

Being a bit of a fusser, I decided I didn't want to risk running it until the dealer could sort it on 5 July in case things got worse so I contacted a local general garage with a good reputation and they were able to look at it at short notice. The had it for the day yesterday and took it out for a long run to enable regen. Not sure what they did differently, but it worked! 😍

Apparently, according to them, these DPF filters are becoming a real pain. It seems luck if the draw whether you have an issue although, undoubtedly, my recent short trips contributed to the issue. 

I love my Sportbrake but clearly, my driving needs don't really justify a Diesel engine but when I bought it new, it was the only fuel option.

Oh well, guess I'll have to buy a petrol F-Pace after all. 

I really appreciate your support and guidance. What a great forum. 😊

 

PS I'm not sure what the bill will be for the regen. They said they would invoice me so I'll keep you posted. Hopefully, cheaper than a new filter. 

 

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Hi Sarah,

Glad you got it sorted.  The DPF can be somewhat of a pain, and for a lot of short runs a petrol engine is better, unless you can organise a long run now and then.  I solved the problem of using my car for short runs by buying my wife a Toyota Yaris Hybrid, which has a 1.5 litre petrol engine which transfers into electric mode when doing less than 40 mph and keeps popping in an out of electric mode while the battery is changing.

Jaguar have just announced a new model to replace the F Type, which will be known as the E Type!  [but not like the one below - driven by Mary Sayer, daughter of the e type designer]

Regards,

Peter

P1010931.JPG

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On 6/20/2017 at 5:26 PM, Old Peter said:

I disagree very firmly with Paul. Additives are not expensive, nor are they snake oil.  A can of a suitable additive which you will use less than once a month will cost around £10 and will assist with the DPF Regeneration.

And avoid a remap, quite unnecessary, unless you want to become a boy racer.  The engine which Jaguar have put into your car is a very well designed engine and I would recommend that it is not interfered with.

My s type is 10 years old and runs very sweetly, and I find 208 bhp very powerful.

Peter.

Why does everyone assume remapping an ECU leads to driving faster? I thought the topic was on preventing DPF problems? The engine which Jaguar put into to your car maybe very well designed? But there not hand built and blue printed,So each will be slightly different but the ECU used is not calibrated to individual engines hence fuel efficient it's not! It stands to reason if you can achieve 3-5 mpg more the fuel is being burnt and not depositing un-burnt down the exhaust. I don't dispute you think your car drives very sweetly as your used to driving it, But I very much doubt after 10 years the bhp would be anywhere near the quoted 208 horses of a new engine and if your happy with the way it drives then all well and good. Before you shot me down! I was just trying to give advice  on others not so fortunate to own such a sweet driving model. End of my impute on the subject..:surrender:

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I note your comment, Paul, but spending over £300 on a remap to possibly cure a DPF issue  when an additive that will do the same did seem a little expensive.

My car droves well because of preventative maintenance probably due to making sure that the car does a longish run every month, and the occasional splash of a suitable additive to a tankful of premium fuel.  I usually achieve around 45 to 50 mpg on a long motorway run and average over 30 mpg on shorter runs..

Regards,

Peter.

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Mine is the 275 bhp engine so I guess I was asking for trouble just pootling about on local runs! Husband took it for a couple of hours run up the M3 to visit a mate yesterday and said it ran very sweetly.

STILL not been billed by the garage for the regen run last week! They've either forgotten or are still adding up the cost. 😆😆

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Update:

Contacted the garage; they had forgotten to bill me. £88.80 to pay - I can live with that. Also advised me, if not taking it for long runs to get it up to 3000 revs for 5-6 miles at least once a month.

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So..

..Just following up with some fairly terrible news especially for those of you already concerned about the entirely man-made DPF problem!

The DPF clean im march seemingly worked an absolute treat giving trouble free motoring (including a run down to the French alps for Skiing and back again) - car absolutely fine right up until the end of December - then on the 29th Dec I got the DPF warning 'in RED' out of nowhere - there was no yellow warning first!

Car was already booked in for its MOT today so I didn't drive it again until dropping off this morning

The specialist confirmed today however that RED is terminal - regen not possible - DEAD! - and says I need a replacement DPF at £1'800

My car is exactly 5 years old now with about 95'000 on the clock so be warned about this hideous diesel Jaguar running cost - DPF problems are not unique to jaguar but the replacement pricing is!

To my mind there must be something wrong elsewhere if this has failed so catastrophically and suddenly without warning and this is after just 5 years of predominantly motorway driving!

I am toying with the idea of getting a used ebay DPF just to get me through the MOT this year as they are about £250 and given that I feel there may be a fault causing the current one to  fail I don't really want to spunk £1'800 to then have the new one fail in short order.

Does anyone know if any of these new DPF cleaning services which are any good  ?

Why the hell is there no DPF status information on the dash or any indication when a regen is occurring is there any update available for the car which can show this ?

Very unhappy 🤬

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Hi Tim,

I have been very lucky with the DPF issue so far.  I think that there is something awry with your car, though.  I would have thought that there would have been some kind of amber warning that the DPF was getting ready for regeneration or indicating that a regeneration is taking place.  I have heard that the revs increase when a regeneration is occurring, but personally I have never had that happen.  I would be inclined to go to ebay for a replacement, get the MOT, and then find someone who knows about cars rather than someone who is going to tell you that there isn't a problem, really.

On another slightly different topic, my s-type is sitting on my driveway waiting for the mechanic I have used for over 17 years to ring me us with a price to replace both EGR valves which are causing the restricted performance message.  I don't expect a figure less than £360 for the two and that is without the fitting cost, probably about £100.  A main dealer would be charging much more than that!

Let us know how you go on.

Regards,

Peter.

 

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